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Mild-mannered and softly spoken, Mats Holmquist doesn’t initially seem like the most obvious candidate to shake up the Shanghai jazz scene. However, in conversation, it’s clear that the new director of the JZ Big Band is a man with a mission. Shanghai 247 meets the man from Stockholm who is taking the JZ Big Band to the next level, getting classical trumpeters to put down their music and improvise, who thinks that jazz fans aren’t always a good thing and wants to turn Shanghai into a Big Band Mecca.
Mats moved to Shanghai from Sweden last summer to work with the JZ Club, directing their Big Band, a riotously talented ensemble featuring the crème de la crème of Shanghai’s jazz musicians. Mats has conducted Big Bands for over 40 years, and spent the past two years leading band workshops around the world. In addition to conducting, Mats is also a composer and arranger, and has developed a programme in Sweden trying to revive the Big Band tradition in schools.
Mats will be leading the JZ Big Band on Mondays in February, starting from the 6th.
You have been working a lot with the Shanghai Conservatoire and some schools in Shanghai working with Youth Bands. Do you feel like you are on a mission to bring Big Band to China?
I’m the kind of person who sometimes really burns for what I do, so I’ve been thinking for a long time now about the possibilities for Big Bands in China. I’m sure there will be a lot of obstacles, but with 1.4 billion people I can certainly see possibilities. I mean, if we can get it into the school system, for example, or if JZ had 4, 5 youth bands in 2 years, and let’s say the conservatoire bands had two bands within 2 years’ time who are rehearsing every day - bands that participate a lot in concerts - then we could go out and perform, we can get some sort of movement going.
So do you think it is possible to grow a Big Band scene in China, starting with JZ and Shanghai?
I usually like to see things in broader terms than just my own small world. If I wanted to, I could only focus on the JZ Big Band and one or two JZ youth bands and not do so much else. However, I’m sure I will do much more because I think it’s important, because I grew up with it. I started playing Big Band when I was 15 and I just loved it, all this noise. A professional band can make really interesting sounds with the flugel horns, flutes and clarinets and interesting chords. Big band can be really boring or it can be really fantastic, it just depends how you do it.
I went to JZ with a few friends who had never seen a Big Band before, and they had a similar experience. They were just blown away by the noise and the sheer size and scale of the band…
When there are so many people on stage, it makes a big impression, it’s like the eye is almost as important as the ears. You get the feeling that this is something important when there are 20 people on stage, I like that.
The concerts here have been very exciting as the audiences are less prejudiced than at home. For them it’s better, because they have no opinion about big bands being a part of the music school system - something you do at age 13 to 16, and then you quit.
You have mentioned that JZ club is different to other clubs in a number of ways - you rate it above Blue note in New York, Ronnie Scott's in London, and Fasching in Stockholm - what makes it so special for you? Or are you just saying that for the audience?
I really mean it. For one thing - and this might sound like I’m not a musician, but I’m really thinking about the whole picture here - most jazz clubs close down because they don’t earn enough money, but JZ club earns enough money to survive and that makes jazz alive 7 days a week. So I prefer seeing those party animals that pack the house and get a new experience. That would never happen in Fasching in Stockholm- only people who are very interested in music would ever go there. It’s good to have a place that people can go to for reasons other than jazz. The JZ club is perfectly planned for this; people who are not too interested, they are on the second floor, or in the summer they’re on the third floor having a drink, and if they’re interested they go to the second floor and watch for a bit. The people who are really into the music stay on the first floor, and you can even talk in the bar on the first floor without disturbing the music too much. That’s my picture of a jazz club, it shouldn't be like a concert hall. Even I can enjoy going to a jazz concert and listening 70 per cent instead of 100 per cent.
In Sweden we say that the typical jazz club listener is a 55-70 year old chemistry teacher, male. There are no women, no young people. There are no people that just happen to stop by. JZ really looks like a night club and I think that’s a big advantage - people can listen if they want to, and if they don’t, they’re still paying for jazz musicians.
You have presented the Band with a challenging set, with your tribute to Steve Reich, 7/4 time signatures and insanely fast tempos. How have musicians reacted to that?
They like it. There are mainly two reactions from musicians. As long as it doesn’t create too much stress, they’re usually just happy because it keeps them on their toes a little bit. They cannot sleep while playing – with this kind of music they really have to practice, to come to rehearsals, to focus on it and then they grow musically.
Musicians and directors usually deal with specifics, but I told the band we can do specifics, but that’s just going to make us stay alive for the next Saturday - it’s not going to make us grow. When I do workshops I’m trying to get bands to play 30 seconds of music really well, instead of one and a half hours very poorly. And sometimes you can do that with 15, 30 minutes of quality rehearsing and that will affect the whole programme.
The band has a very diverse range of musicians - seasoned jazz pros from the USA working alongside young classically trained conservatoire musicians from China. Is that a more diverse group than you have worked with before?
Sure, in Sweden, everyone has very similar backgrounds, but here it’s a lot more diverse. The trombone players are mainly symphony guys, for example. Classical musicians have a couple advantages, they have very good technique and they can read just about anything. The only thing they lack is the experience and the jazz language. If you’re talented - which they are - you can get away with it pretty well.
This one guy Che Fei, he’s started improvising. He played at the jam session and was really good, I would have believed he was a jazz trumpet player. There is this one guy on trombone who has an unusual talent for strength and high notes – if he could learn the phrasing and the jazz timing, he could be a typical lead player. Also, I have been having special rehearsals for the young guys from the conservatoire - two very talented saxophone players, and there are other guys who want to be in the band that are too young as well.
Do you find it challenging to communicate with a band made up of people with such different cultural and musical backgrounds?
Good planning can make an enormous difference. I make all the subs participate in the rehearsals, which is very unusual. I have rehearsals for subs in the rhythm section, even if they don’t have a gig - usually it’s the opposite, very last minute. Before, the JZ Big Band cancelled a lot, and that’s because they didn’t have this system with subs.
The first gig, they didn’t even put on nice clothes on stage, and people were coming to rehearsals after three weeks saying they didn’t have the music. So I set up some rules, but they are a little bit unused to that.
How did the players react to that?
I think they like it, but the general saying about Shanghai musicians is that they are kind of spoiled. There are very very few at the top and there's nobody underneath, these guys get all the gigs. If they wanted, they could behave very badly and they would still get the gigs, because there is no one else to call. In the Big Band they know they will not get away with this.
I think the situation is only temporary - just like everywhere else the competition is going to grow. I don’t know exactly how fast, but it will grow and then the behaviour and professionalism will have to grow.
What plans do you have next with JZ Big Band?
The next thing I’m working on is this Wayne Shorter project with Dave Liebman and my own band in Sweden. We’re going to do a one week tour, which is of course exciting. Dave Liebman is such a great musician, he has made over 100, 150 albums, he’s a legend, and he will be our soloist. We will be performing Wayne Shorter compositions that I have arranged in my own style - Big Band Minimalism.
One of my highest goals is to have regular appearances by world star jazz artists coming to China and performing with the JZ Big Band.
So you think international acts are keen to come to China and find a new audience?
Yeah, I think so. It seems like more young people could be interested here. In Sweden it’s mostly old people, jazz clubs are basically packed with retired people. The jazz clubs in Sweden are not venues, they are societies of people renting a place and organising concerts. They are usually retired jazz fans and they struggle a lot. And I mean, what will happen when they are gone? There are hardly any young people in the jazz clubs to support them.
There are also plans with JZ to expand the Big Band thing - they can send us to do corporate events, luxury country club gigs, do tours, and they can actually earn a little bit of money on that at the same time as building up the reputation of the band. That’s different from the old world because there is no money in big bands there, but right here in Shanghai could be a little bit of money involved.
I saw the jazz festival, and the concerts the week after that - they had Kenny Garret, Eric Dreyfuss, it was packed with people, and there were a lot of young people there. Then I thought, if JZ Big Band could perform with Chick Corea, Mike Stern or Joshua Redman it could actually be packed with around 2000 people in there, and then break even or make a profit from doing that kind of thing. Every year has become bigger and it’s mostly young people there - they discover jazz, they didn’t know anything about it, but got into it - especially the funk fusion stuff.
The thing about Shanghai is that this is probably the only place where a big band can make money. I can say for sure, this job that I have is totally unique and it would never happen in Paris and definitely not in New York. It is almost like a fairy tale really, I think it only could happen here. Here, it’s the jazz club that pays my salary, and it’s clear that they really believe in the Big Band - not only for fun but to actually be able make a living for me, for the club and to some extent for the musicians.
As well as a conductor you are also a conductor and arranger. Do you plan to incorporate local musicians, instruments and styles into your work as others have done?
We are going to Copenhagen in January with an all-Chinese band, with many players from the JZ Big Band. We’re doing modern Chinese stuff, some by the singers Coco Zhao and Jasmine Chen, traditional Chinese songs that they have adapted. I’m supposed to arrange some of that and then of course I will encounter some Chinese traditional instruments and songs.
My next project is going to involve two Big Bands, one recorded and one playing live, so I could make new sounds; then I’d have 10 saxophones, 10 trumpets and 8 trombones. I am trying to interest the Finnish Radio Big Band, who are one of the biggest bands in Europe.
WORDS: PETER JACKSON
PICTURES: ADAM VALLANCE
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